Vivek Ramaswamy, the son of Indian immigrants, resurrected a 2015 proposal of ending birthright citizenship from then-candidate Donald Trump.
Vivek Ramaswamy himself has used the H-1B visa programme 29 times. (File)
Washington: Continuing his proposals of harsh policy changes, Indian-American presidential aspirant Vivek Ramaswamy, in his second Republican presidential debate, has said he would favour ending birthright citizenship for children of illegal immigrants in the US.
The second Republican debate of the 2024 election cycle which was held at Ronald Reagan Presidential Library and Museum in Simi Valley, California on Wednesday, saw Mr Ramaswamy sharing the stage with six other candidates including Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis and former United Nations Ambassador Nikki Haley.
When asked “what legal premise” he would use to expel undocumented immigrants and their American-born children from the country, Vivek Ramaswamy, the son of Indian immigrants, resurrected a 2015 proposal of ending birthright citizenship from then-candidate Donald Trump, reported the Washington Post on Wednesday.
The first section of the citizenship clause of the US Constitution’s 14th Amendment says, “All persons born or naturalised in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.”
Although most agree with the long-held tradition that it grants citizenship to those born on US soil, some legal scholars argue that the phrase “and subject to the jurisdiction thereof” seems to give the government some leeway to restrict the right, just as other constitutional principles can be limited, the report said.
Because of this, he argued, children of undocumented immigrants born in the United States should not be granted citizenship, because their parents “broke the law” to be in the country.
Vivek Ramaswamy, 38, also supported his opponents onstage and acknowledged other measures such as militarisation of the southern border, defunding “sanctuary cities,” and an end to foreign aid to Mexico and Central America.
He said he would go a “step further” by ending “birthright citizenship for the kids of illegal immigrants in this country.” A second-generation Indian-American, Mr Ramaswamy, had earlier criticised the H-1B visa programme saying the current “lottery” system needs to be “gutted” and replaced with a “meritocratic” skill-based immigration scheme to match the needs of the US.
The H-1B visa, much sought-after among Indian IT professionals, is a non-immigrant visa that allows US companies to employ foreign workers in speciality occupations that require theoretical or technical expertise.
A row has broken out after the founder of popular photo blog Humans of New York criticised a similar Indian platform’s take on copyright.
Humans of Bombay, which follows the same format as Brandon Stanton’s New York blog, started in Mumbai in 2014.
It recently filed a suit against People of India, which started a few years later, of copyright infringement.
All three tell stories of people in the form of interviews or posts alongside their photos.
Brandon Stanton started Humans of New York as a photo project in 2010
Earlier this month, Humans of Bombay (HOB) filed a lawsuit in the Delhi High Court saying People of India (POI) was an “identical portal/service” which had “replicated a large number of images and videos” from its platform. People of India has been summoned for a hearing on 11 October.
Founded by Drishti Saxena in 2019, POI has over two million followers on social media. In the court documents, HOB has shared screengrabs of People of India’s posts alleging that they were almost exactly like its own.
POI has not publicly commented on the lawsuit but continues to share posts on Instagram. On Saturday, it also opened an account on X (formerly Twitter).
The case made headlines in India after Stanton commented on it on Saturday on X – “you can’t be suing people for what I’ve forgiven you for”, he posted.
Stanton said he had remained quiet about “the appropriation of my work” by Humans of Bombay because it “shares important stories”. He also pointed out that HOB had monetised their work “far past anything I’d feel comfortable doing on HONY [Humans of New York]”.
HOB responded to Stanton’s post, saying it was shocked at the “cryptic assault” on its effort to protect its intellectual property without understanding the background of the case. It added that Stanton “ought to have equipped” himself with information before commenting.
The Indian platform faced backlash from many in the country who called its lawsuit hypocritical. One user pointed out that HOB used the same tagline as HONY – “one story at a time” – on its X page.
Others questioned what copyright laws HOB adhered to while using the stories of people it interviewed for its platform.
In 2019, HOB had been criticised for publishing a flattering five-part interview of Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi ahead of the national elections.
In a post on X on Sunday, HOB said it was “grateful” to HONY and Stanton for “starting this storytelling movement”.
It also attempted to clarify that its case was related to intellectual property of its posts and “not about storytelling at all”.
HOB, founded by Karishma Mehta, has said it was “grateful” to HONY and Stanton for “starting this storytelling movement”
But on Monday, Stanton released a statement saying: “For the last 13 years I haven’t received a penny for a single story told on Humans of New York, despite many millions offered.”
He said he welcomed anyone using the concept “to express something true and beautiful about their community” but did not identify with anyone using it “to create a certain lifestyle for themselves”.
In an interview to an Indian YouTube channel earlier this year, HOB founder Karishma Mehta said the platform functioned as a business that ran on ads and also collaborated with brands like Amazon, WhatsApp and Unilever for their campaigns.
U.S. President Joe Biden’s son Hunter Biden was criminally charged on Thursday with deceiving a gun dealer into selling him a firearm, in the latest sign of how the younger Biden’s legal woes may weigh on his father’s re-election bid next year.
Hunter Biden walks to the motorcade after arriving at Fort McNair, after U.S. President Joe Biden spent the weekend at Camp David, in Washington, U.S., July 4, 2023. REUTERS/Julia Nikhinson/File Photo Acquire Licensing Rights
The first-ever indictment of a sitting president’s child, filed in U.S. District Court in Delaware, charged Hunter Biden with three criminal counts related to lying about the fact he was using illegal drugs at that time, which would have banned him under the law from owning a firearm.
The charges ensure that courtroom drama will play an outsized role in the 2024 U.S. presidential campaign as Joe Biden, 80, seeks reelection in a likely rematch with his Republican predecessor Donald Trump, 77, who faces four upcoming criminal trials of his own.
The new charges against Hunter Biden brought by recently elevated U.S. Special Counsel David Weiss say nothing about any violations of U.S. tax law. A prior deal under which Hunter Biden, 53, would have pleaded guilty to two misdemeanor tax charges and enroll in a program to avoid prosecution on the gun charge collapsed in a stunning turn in a July hearing.
The tax investigation into Biden remains ongoing, after Weiss previously said any possible charges would need to be brought in either the District of Columbia or the Los Angeles-based Central District of California.
Prosecutors accused the younger Biden of lying about his use of narcotics when he purchased a Colt Cobra handgun in October 2018.
The move comes two days after House of Representatives Republicans opened an impeachment inquiry of Joe Biden related to Hunter Biden’s foreign business dealings. The White House has denounced that step, made without a vote by the full House, as unsubstantiated and politically motivated.
A bottle of Johnson and Johnson Baby Powder is seen in a photo illustration taken in New York, February 24, 2016. Consumers expressed concern on social media about a talc-based baby powder made by Johnson & Johnson on Wednesday after a Missouri jury ordered the company to pay $72 million in damages to the family of a woman who said her death from cancer was linked to use of the product.
Johnson & Johnson (JNJ.N) has agreed to pay $8.9 billion to settle tens of thousands of lawsuits alleging that talc in its iconic Baby Powder and other products caused cancer, the company said. The amount dwarfs J&J’s original offer of $2 billion.
The agreement follows a January appeals court ruling invalidating J&J’s controversial “Texas two-step” bankruptcy maneuver, in which it sought to offload the talc liability onto a subsidiary that immediately filed for Chapter 11.
The J&J subsidiary, LTL Management, filed for bankruptcy protection late Tuesday for a second time with the intent to present a reorganization plan containing the proposed settlement to a judge as soon as May 14, the subsidiary said in a court filing. J&J said in a statement that about 60,000 talc claimants had agreed to the proposal.
The J&J subsidiary filed for bankruptcy in New Jersey, the same jurisdiction where it faced the appeals court defeat. J&J crafted new financing arrangements with its subsidiary to avoid running afoul of the appeals ruling, the subsidiary said in a court filing. The ruling determined LTL Management had no legitimate claim to bankruptcy because it was not in financial distress.
The appeals court rejection effectively raised the price tag for J&J to rid itself of the sprawling talc litigation, after plaintiffs’ lawyers had resisted the company’s tactics and prevailed. J&J’s board met over the weekend and approved paying the vastly larger settlement to current and future plaintiffs with various gynecological cancers and mesothelioma, according to Mikal Watts, one of the plaintiffs’ lawyers who negotiated the agreement.
J&J reiterated on Tuesday that its talc products are safe and do not cause cancer. Company lawyers said talc claims lacked scientific merit and accused plaintiffs’ lawyers of continuing to advertise for clients in the hopes of extracting large financial sums.
The company still faces significant risk that other plaintiffs could continue to oppose the settlement and appeal the case again to the same court that has already rejected the subsidiary bankruptcy — the 3rd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Philadelphia.
Attorneys representing thousands of plaintiffs issued a release late Tuesday opposing the settlement. “This sham deal does not even pay for most victims’ medical bills,” said Jason Itkin, founding partner of the Houston-based personal injury law firm Arnold & Itkin LLP.
Reuters reported earlier on Tuesday that J&J was exploring placing its talc subsidiary into bankruptcy proceedings a second time and that a lawyer for the company had approached plaintiffs’ attorneys in recent weeks proposing the two sides craft a new settlement agreement that could be consummated in a second J&J subsidiary bankruptcy. Reuters last year detailed the secretive planning of Texas two-steps by J&J and three other major companies in a series of reports exploring corporate attempts to evade lawsuits through bankruptcies.
Under terms of the newly proposed settlement, plaintiffs diagnosed with cancer before April 1 would be paid from a bankruptcy trust within one year of a judge approving the Chapter 11 plan creating it, according to Watts, the plaintiffs’ lawyer who helped negotiate the deal. Plaintiffs diagnosed later will have access to money set aside in the trust for the next 25 years.
The massive settlement emerged after the legal failure of J&J’s original Texas two-step bankruptcy, filed in October 2021. The novel tactic involved using a Texas state law to divide a company being sued into two, then shifting liability to one of the newly created entities. LTL Management, the new subsidiary that absorbed the liability, declared bankruptcy almost immediately after it was created.
Plaintiffs lawyers portrayed J&J’s two-step as an abuse of the bankruptcy system by a multinational conglomerate with a market capitalization exceeding $400 billion and in little danger of running out of money to pay cancer victims.
J&J and its subsidiary have argued the bankruptcy served a greater good for all parties, including plaintiffs: The restructuring could deliver settlement payouts more fairly, efficiently and equitably than a “lottery” offered by trial courts, where some litigants get large awards and others get nothing.
Ex-staffers of the metaverse company have accused CEO Janine Yorio of ‘vulgar’ sex talk and harassment, but she says it’s all a big shakedown.
Photo Illustration by Luis G. Rendon/The Daily Beast/Everyrealm/Getty/Reuters
While Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg appears to be retreating from his metaverse dreams, other entrepreneurs have their own visions for virtual worlds—including immersive media startup Everyrealm, which promotes members-only “ultra-luxury” spaces that will be sold as NFTs, and a “premier island community” on The Sandbox platform, called Fantasy Islands, where it sold a digital $650,000 superyacht that one writer once characterized as “comically hideous.”
In a recent video podcast, Everyrealm CEO Janine Yorio presented a transgressive vision for metaverse users. “People want a safe space to make bad decisions,” Yorio told Tech Snippets Today. “They want vice, they want unfortunately to destroy things, and to do things that are harder to do in real life or often carry a lot of consequences.”
Players on virtual platforms and games, Yorio added, “have to embrace the fact that oftentimes that comes with content that isn’t G-rated.”
But Yorio is facing some R-rated accusations herself.
Three former employees have filed lawsuits claiming she fostered a hostile and toxic environment, one where workers’ sex lives were fair game and where Yorio allegedly made advances on colleagues, telling one subordinate that she and her husband were “only married in the Metaverse.”
Former NFL player Teyo Johnson, who worked at the company for just three months, claims Yorio and her New York-based firm “used their positions of power to sexually harass, discriminate against, and retaliate against” him.
The court battle between former staffers and Yorio and her metaverse innovation fund—which has a range of celebrity investors including Paris Hilton, The Weeknd and Nas—has turned ugly, with the company’s attorneys filing lurid private texts to the public docket. They also revealed in court filings that one former HR director, who filed a suit against the startup and is represented by Johnson’s attorney, actually helped to terminate him.
The startup argues Johnson and three other former employees engaged “in a coordinated effort to shake down” the company for out-of-court settlements totaling $7.4 million. (Only three employees filed lawsuits, however, against Everyrealm.)
In a filed legal memorandum, Everyrealm called Johnson’s suit a “money grab” intended “to garner publicity—and to try to harm Everyrealm, especially in its relations with its investors.”
While the startup argued that Johnson must pursue his harassment and discrimination claims in arbitration as agreed upon under his employment contract, the onetime football player said his case belonged in court because of a landmark #MeToo law, the Ending Forced Arbitration of Sexual Assault and Sexual Harassment Act, which passed last year.
“I guess that was the culture. Just sit down, shut the fuck up, put your head down, no talking, do as I say, and endure all these like awful weird jokes.”
Everyrealm claimed Johnson “fabricated a new narrative involving allegations of sexual harassment” to sidestep arbitration. But in February, U.S. District Judge Paul Engelmayer disagreed and allowed Johnson’s case to proceed, ruling that he “pled a plausible claim.”
On Friday, Johnson filed an amended complaint adding claims of post-employment retaliation and alleging Everyrealm “leaked some or all of his employee personnel file” and private tax returns to journalists and other third parties.
Former Everyrealm employees told The Daily Beast that the allegations against Yorio didn’t surprise them and some were even aware of them at the time. “Generally inappropriate comments as a normal part of company culture was a ticking time bomb,” said one ex-staffer, adding, “There’s a lot of room for improvement.” (The lawsuits allege multiple instances of crude commentary, including Yorio supposedly saying, “all the men here are castrated,” that one of her co-founders was “an incel” who she hoped would “have gay sex” with someone at a tech conference, and a female executive was a “neurotic anorexic.”)
“It was an unhealthy workplace,” a second former employee said. “The way that she treated everyone, you know, there’s going to be unhappy people.”
Yorio, in a statement to The Daily Beast, called her ex-employees’ litigation “legal terrorism” and “a shakedown disguised as wrongful termination suits.”
“Against repeated advice, I remain staunchly opposed to ‘writing a check’ to make these baseless lawsuits go away,” Yorio said. “We didn’t do any of these things, and so I refuse to succumb to lies and terrorist legal tactics.”
“When these lawsuits hit, I was warned that the public blowback would be worse than normal precisely because I’m a woman.”
— Janine Yorio
“These former employees worked at Everyrealm for only a few months each, one quit voluntarily and two were fired for poor performance. Since the beginning, we have refused to pay them a nickel—because that is what they deserve,” she said.
“The truth is that there was an obvious and non-discriminatory reason for the terminations and resignations: these people were really bad at their jobs. The harassment and hostile work environment claims are just smoke and mirrors to deflect from that central fact.”
Shane Seppinni, a lawyer for Johnson and three other former Everyrealm employees, said that the company’s response shows “what individual workers are up against when they decide to bring claims against their employers.”
“There’s no shakedown,” Seppinni told The Daily Beast. “They prodded us to make a demand with, I believe, the intent of leaking it to garner sympathy for themselves.”
Teyo Johnson, a two-sport standout at Stanford, was drafted by Oakland Raiders in 2003 before playing for the Arizona Cardinals and Buffalo Bills. He also did a stint in the Canadian Football League in 2009, when the Calgary Herald described him as “an entrepreneur who’s been part of two high-tech startup businesses,” “world traveler” and “good buddy of NBA star Yao Ming.”
“I love the concept of bringing a new product out, having something hot and selling it,” Johnson told the Herald. “You see these guys who make tons of money selling different things, and you ask yourself, why not me?”
In a resume submitted to Everyrealm, Johnson listed roles that included director of business development for Yao Family Wines, managing partner at a legal marijuana company in Washington state, and independent contractor for Caerus Investment Advisors. At Caerus, Johnson notes, he secured new clients including boxing legend Mike Tyson and NBA guard James Harden and raised $3 million for SpaceX. (On LinkedIn, Johnson indicates he’s a self-employed private equity specialist based in Las Vegas.)
Former NFL player Teyo Johnson invested in Everyrealm Photo Illustration by Luis G. Rendon/The Daily Beast/Everyrealm/Getty
According to his lawsuit, Everyrealm recruited Johnson after he connected someone in his rolodex to the firm, leading to a $500,000 investment in the startup’s $60 million Series A round led by Andreessen Horowitz. Prominent investors included Coinbase Ventures, film producer Jeffrey Katzenberg, and Gene Simmons of KISS fame. (Yorio, however, told The Daily Beast that Johnson “never raised one dollar for the company” and that his first day at the firm came weeks after Everyrealm’s investment round closed.)
Yorio and executives were “impressed by this, Mr. Johnson’s professional network, his experience in commercial real estate, and his skills” and eventually made him Everyrealm’s Director of Strategic Partnerships in March 2022, the complaint says.
Two months prior, Johnson sent Yorio a glowing email. “This is a once in a lifetime opportunity,” he wrote, adding, “I would love to be a part of your team and I believe you are a leader that I can follow and will run through a wall for (pun intended).”
“I will give you my best, conduct myself as a professional and never embarrass the company,” Johnson added in the message, which was filed as a court exhibit.
His journey into the metaverse apparently didn’t go as planned.
Johnson claims the harassment began days after he was hired, when he and company executives attended the South by Southwest (SXSW) conference. His lawsuit says Yorio encouraged employees to play a “sex-related game” she called “KYP” or “Know Your Personnel,” which involved hooking up with colleagues. Johnson alleges that she told him there was an alternate version for romps with business partners: “KYC” or “Know Your Client.”
At their hotel at night, the complaint says, Yorio approached Johnson and suggested he “would cheat on [his girlfriend] if the opportunity arises.” From Johnson’s perspective, Yorio, a married mother of two kids, seemed to be “inappropriately ‘testing the waters’ with him” after telling him in his job interview that he was “more than just a pretty face.”
Back in New York, Yorio repeatedly asked Johnson if he had “done” or planned to engage in any “KYP,” the complaint says. (In a motion to dismiss, Everyrealm claimed the game was “a fabrication by Johnson” and “apparently an acronym used in football and one that is completely foreign to Mrs. Yorio.” They also say “Johnson brought a woman to various evening events with whom he was occupied during the times of the alleged conversations between Mrs. Yorio and Johnson.”)
Johnson claims his then-girlfriend also became a target. When the woman brought her service dog to a company party, the lawsuit says, Yorio and fellow executive Julia Schwartz gave them “dirty looks” and “refused to acknowledge” them.
“Mr. Johnson has described their behavior as being like a scene ripped from the movie ‘Mean Girls,’” the complaint says, with the women allegedly nicknaming his girlfriend “Dog in a Bag” and telling employees they thought she “was lying about her mental illness so that she could bring her dog around ‘like Paris Hilton.’”
The following day, Yorio allegedly approached Johnson, asking if he was late because he “hooked up with Dog in a Bag.” The complaint says that while Johnson “made it abundantly clear that he was uncomfortable” with the conversation, Yorio wouldn’t give up.
“They want vice, they want unfortunately to destroy things, and to do things that are harder to do in real life or often carry a lot of consequences.”
— Janine Yorio, on players in the metaverse
Johnson, worried about not being viewed as a team player, finally shared why he didn’t have sex with his girlfriend that night: she was menstruating. “After this exchange,” the filing states, “Ms. Yorio told multiple people in the Everyrealm New York City office that Mr. Johnson was ‘walking around telling people that ‘Dog in a Bag is on the rag.’”
The inappropriate talk also allegedly extended to partners of the company.
Johnson claims Everyrealm’s general counsel William Kerr referred to celebrity investor Paris Hilton—who performed a DJ set at a company SXSW event—as “A Night in Paris,” the title of the leaked sex tape which she has said was “extremely painful” and “humiliated” her.
Yorio, Johnson says in his complaint, also “made a habit of referring to” business partners’ genitals during private meetings with him and called one partner a “Big Swinging Dick.” Johnson claims the use of such language ultimately sabotaged a partnership he was cultivating.
After Johnson negotiated a deal with a marijuana and CBD firm, Cookies, he and Yorio held a celebratory meeting at SXSW. But during the get-together, Yorio allegedly called the weed company’s president Parker Berling a “dick” and “fucking dick,” in response to Berling’s questions about who Everyrealm viewed as their competition. “I’ve never seen someone react so hostilely to a basic question like this. Are you ok?” Berling allegedly asked, according to Johnson’s complaint.
Johnson claims this led to the arrangement falling through, and that Yorio demanded Johnson “fix it.” He says he was demoted after failing to revive the deal, placed on a retaliatory performance improvement plan, and ordered to hand his entire personal rolodex to Schwartz and another employee who replaced him.
The lawsuit also details allegations of racism and says that as “the only Black man” at the company at the time, he was afraid to challenge Yorio.
“I am aware of other Black men at Everyrealm who experienced pervasive sexual harassment at the hands of Ms. Yorio and Defendants,” Johnson said in a September court declaration, in which he claimed his unwelcome treatment “was likely caused, at least in large part, by Ms. Yorio’s improper fetishization of Black men.”
Paris Hilton, who invested in Everyrealm, poses with CEO Janine Yorio Photo Illustration by Luis G. Rendon/The Daily Beast/Everyrealm/Getty/Twitter
According to the lawsuit, Yorio declared after Johnson’s job interview, “Teyo is the whitest Black guy I’ve ever met.” When the HR director confronted Yorio about her comments, Yorio allegedly responded, “No, I meant it in a good way.”
Yorio is also accused of telling Johnson, “[You’re] lucky that went well, now I don’t have to trade you” after he led a meeting with LeBron James’ entertainment company. The lawsuit says she “made this same, tired racist comment numerous times.”
Johnson’s complaint says “his qualifications and intelligence were frequently questioned and disparaged at Everyrealm due to the color of his skin.” In April 2022, Yorio allegedly told colleagues that Johnson “needs to go” and complained, “He isn’t smart, he doesn’t know asset management and he absolutely does not know our industry. He does not put our best foot forward.”
After Johnson was terminated in May 2022, the lawsuit says, Yorio told coworkers, “It’s worse to have a stupid Black person on the team because then you’re really just exploiting them and making it look like you’re trying to be diverse.”
Johnson, who was offered a $125,000 base salary, claims he was the lowest paid director in Everyrealm’s history; directors in similar roles had been paid hundreds of thousands more and granted millions in equity in Everyrealm and its then parent company, Republic. Yorio also allegedly called Johnson “expensive” to other employees.
“The way that she treated everyone, you know, there’s going to be unhappy people.”
Everyrealm, in a motion to dismiss, says that “contrary to Johnson’s claims, he was employed in a low paying manual labor job at the time of his hire.”
The company put forward accusations of their own, saying “it was Johnson who encouraged discussions regarding sexuality and promiscuity” and filed an exhibit showing a Slack message between Johnson and Kerr. “What’s the latest from Las Vegas?” Kerr asked, and in reply, Johnson shared a selfie and a photo of three women at a high rise overlooking a cityscape. “Who’s the chica in the hat?” Kerr asked. Johnson answered, “21 year old smoke show, her BF is older than me. Gonna snatch it up when they part ways. Gonna catch and release BK!!”
In another filing, the startup claims Johnson “openly and routinely disparaged the mother of his child and demanded that Everyrealm pay a portion of his wages in cash to avoid garnishment for child support payments (a request that was refused by Everyrealm).” The firm also claims Johnson referred to a company director as “that bitch” and Yorio as “that crazy bitch” and disparaged a junior female employee as a “rookie.”
Johnson, Everyrealm claims, was put on a performance improvement plan because “he visibly fell asleep as his desk in the company’s open pit-style office, failed to meet his business goals and violated the company’s expense policy by using his corporate credit card to pay for personal expenses and business expenses that were never approved.”
Everyrealm alleges in court filings that it fired Johnson over “a plethora of inappropriate misconduct” including “flagrant misogyny toward his female co-workers as documented by then-Human Resources Director Kathy Yost,” who also sued the startup.
Seppinni said in court papers that Everyrealm’s exhibits were “scrounged from a one-sided discovery process” and “lack context,” court papers reveal.
“Having failed to support their motion on the merits, Defendants insult Teyo for working a manual labor job over a decade ago … and now have twice divulged Plaintiff counsel’s confidential settlement demand, which was made upon Defendants’ request, in their bad faith attempt to discredit Teyo,” Seppinni said in one court filing.
“CEO Yorio admits that she revels in her use of ‘vulgar’ language at work,” Seppinni added, “and that ‘it won’t be the last time’ she refers to men in the office repeatedly and unabashedly by the sexually derogatory term ‘pussy.’”
Still, an exhibit filed by Everyrealm shows how friendly it all started out.
